"Recording Magazine" April 2004 issue

You're at the top of your profession, playing with one of the world's best-known rock bands. You're a rock star; you have it all, right? Would you guess that a player in this position would want to be a jazz guy, too? Well, Daryl Stuermer is one such musician. He has managed to balance both musical personalities for quite a number of years.

Daryl has been a touring member of one of the world's best progressive rock bands, Genesis, for almost twenty years. He's toured as a member of long-time Genesis drummer and vocalist Phil Collin's group since Phil started his solo career in 1982. As a solo artist, Daryl has several albums out, beginning with his first solo album for the GRP Record label in 1987.

These days, Daryl is balancing the rock gigs and the jazz gigs while at the same time running his own record label, Urban Island Music. His latest release, Sweetbottom Live ­the Reunion, was recorded with the jazz band he played with in the 70s, back in his hometown of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The CD was recorded live over the course of two nights at a concert performance in a nightclub. Mixing and post production was taken care of at Daryl's home studio, with Daryl at the board.

The Sweetbottom band consists of Daryl on guitars, his brother Duane on bass, Warren Wiegratz on sax, flutes, and keyboards, with drums and percussion by Mike Murphy, and Kostia performing on piano and synths. The playing is strong throughout, with each member of the band getting a chance to stretch out. On tunes such as "The Archer" and "You've Got To Jive To Stay Alive" we hear Daryl let loose with some blazing extended guitar solos.

I had a chance to follow the project through each step of the process, from the original live tracking date at the pair of concert performances, through the editing and mixing at Daryl's home studio, and finally on to the mastering process. Special thanks go to Chris Adler and Gary Tanin for their help in providing information about the various component parts of the project.

I caught up with Daryl in between gigs with Phil Collins, promoting new music he has composed for a soon to be released movie. Budgets for jazz, world music, and niche-market albums being what they are, in many cases the artists are funding their own productions. Is this also the case for you?

Daryl Stuermer: I basically took money and bought my own gear so that it would be possible for me to record in the future.

It's really interesting to hear that. The fact that players at all levels still have the same real-life problems, like "How am I going to pay for this record?" says something very fundamental about the music business.

I've done fine in my career; the money that I've made has been great. I've co-written songs with Phil Collins; one of them was quite a big hit in 1990. That allows me to have a nice house and to buy some good recording equipment. But I'm also realistic enough to know that when I go out on my own that I can't have the record budget that a Phil Collins has. I can do essentially what I want to do on my own, because I'm not relying on it as my only way to make an income. It's more like a labor of love. A lot of people don't see the reality of it. You have to approach these projects like a business. After all, it is the business of music.

The music that I do is more instrumental-style music. That has a smaller audience, a niche audience, and it's a really loyal audience. And we care about how it sounds. Today you can do so much with the equipment that's available.

Recording Live Tracks

Did you get involved with the live recording setup details such as mic placement?

My live sound engineer, Chris Adler, set up everything. The only thing I requested was some audience mics, so it doesn't sound like a clean studio record. There's a little bit of delay. I kept them very low in the mix, but you notice when they're not there. It doesn't sound as 'live' if I don't put these in.

On what format was the live concert recorded?

We recorded it on a single 24-track Mackie hard disk recorder [Mackie HDR24j96]. But that's not what I own. I use a combination of a couple of different formats. At the time, I was comfortable with the TASCAM DA-98 and DA-38. I have four machines total. And I usually mix on a Yamaha 02R.

We took the Mackie and transferred it over to three of my four TASCAM machines. I mixed the whole record on my 02R. If I were more up on Pro Tools, I probably would have dumped it into that. Since I had just gotten it, I wasn't comfortable enough to do that.

You recorded the new Sweetbottom record live at a club. It's a combination of a live recording with recording studio post production and mixing, as opposed to being a live-to-two-track recording.

Where there any overdubs later?

There were some repairs, but we intentionally did not do overdubs. If all of a sudden you would hear a rhythm guitar playing behind something, that would be wrong.

Did you do any editing to the tracks?

I didn't want to make things perfect­then it wouldn't be live. If someone had made an actual note mistake, one that you would always hear, we would repair that note. It was rare that we had to do that; everyone played pretty well.

That's one of the difficult decisions about fixing live tracks. If you fix a clinker on the bass track, you may still hear a ghost of that note on the live drum tracks, since everyone is playing in the same room.

That is the biggest problem of live; you almost have to allow certain things to go by. I think that's part of having a live record anyway. I've heard so many live records sound like a studio record. What's the point?

In a sense I was forced to do this record more like it was supposed to be, not having Pro Tools and fixing every lit­tle thing. Believe me, I love the Pro Tools system; the editing is what I love about it. But in this case I was forced to do it the way you're supposed to do it, and I think we came up with a nice record that way.

When I did this record, I didn't want it to not sound live. I wasn't getting too picky with every little detail. I wanted it to sound a little gritty, like a live perfor­mance-not too smooth. If I was doing a studio record, I would want to smooth it out a little more.

We didn't edit any tunes together. It was definitely the performance we had that night. The tempos were different. The tunes on the album are a mix of original tunes with a couple of interesting covers like "Freeway Jam," best known as a Jeff Beck tune.

Sweetbottom is a band that doesn't play together very much; this was a reunion. This was a band that played together in 1974-5. In 1975 I joined Jean-Luc Ponty's group, so I left the band. Every time I came home on breaks, I'd play with the group. In 1978 I joined the group Genesis, so I was gone even more. The songs that we did on this record were songs we actually did from 1974 to 1980. We wanted to stick with things we did back then. What we did back then was half cover and the other half originals. There are two cover songs and six original. David Sanborn's song ["The Whisperer," written by Don Grolnick] opens the record. The only member of the band who is not original is the keyboard player.

How did you get start recording and mixing on your own?

For my solo projects I have an engineer who I've worked with for many years, his name is Don Murray. He works with Lee Ritenour and Dave Grusin; he's one of my favorite engineers of all time.

I'll record everything here and I'll fly him into Milwaukee to mix at my studio.

Lee Ritenour, the guitar player, turned me on to him about twenty years ago. He does an incredible job. Don has impeccable technical ability and incredible ears. He's the best that I've ever come across, and I've recorded with some pretty great engineers. That's who I learned from. If the Sweetbottom record sounds decent it's because of those guys.

How did you approach the live recording as far as the effects were concerned?

Most guitar and keyboard players have delays and other effects as part of their rig that would affect their live performance if they were turned off for a live recording. Did you record effects that were produced on stage or use post processing?

I used my pedals and effects. Using the effects that are already on the instruments is fun, too. My guitar had a certain delay on it. I didn't want to bypass it. That's part of the magic of the live recording. That's what I really did play. It would be harder for you the performer to get the same vibe and feel for solos and other parts if you needed to eliminate all the effects with the intention of adding them in at mix down time. This way the listener hears on the CD the same thing as the live audience heard in the club. I think that's where the magic is in live recording.

The Studio

What console do you use at your studio? I have a single Yamaha 02R. That's my original format. Now my studio is also set up with Pro Tools HD3 and a Pro Control24 console. I shied away from Pro Tools for the longest time because I didn't feel like mixing with a mouse. Now with the Pro Control, it's a little more accessible for people who are used to using consoles. That's the way I like to work. So I finally gave in. I like the fact that you can see something on the screen.

What studio monitors do you use for mixing?

I use the Yamaha NS-1 Os and Meyer Sound HD-1 s. The HD-1 s sound nice and smooth. I use the NS-10s mainly for mixing. I have a subwoofer as well.

Do you mix with the subwoofer turned on when using the NS-10s ?

I put the subwoofer on just to give it more bottom, but I actually mix without that up. I use it just for checking. With the HD-l s you don't need the subwoofer.

What outboard gear is in your rack? I have stuff that I've had for a long time. I'm just using some Behringer stuff. I have a line driver (Ultragain Pro MIC2200, a 2­channel tube microphone preamplifier/line driver/DI box], the Composer [compressor/limiter], and a couple of parametric equalizers. It's a real simple setup. When you get used to something, that's what you hang on to. It's very affordable stuff.

For reverb on the drums I used the Alesis Wedge, which they don't make any more. Don Murray turned me on to those. They sound great. On a couple of my solo CDs, Don Murray used those on the drums.

Do you use plug-in processing like the dynamic processors in the 02R?

I'm not crazy about the reverbs in the 02R. I love the compressors and the gating. That's good stuff.

Did you automate your mixes with the 02R?

When you're doing drums and you want to mute the toms until they play, it's so much easier when you can just erase it on the screen. What I did on the 02R when I was mixing Sweetbottom was to mute them through the whole song until they played. And that takes a long time. That's not unlike what you would do in Pro Tools, except that you can look in on the track and do it visually as opposed to listening for a drum hit and then tweaking the mute on/off states. I'm happy that I learned the old-school way of doing things before I did that.

What format do you mix down to?

I mixed down to a Tascam DA-45HR 24-bit DAT machine, at 48 kHz, and took the DATs to Gary Tanin [see the interview with Gary below].

New Projects

For your next solo project, will you be doing the production at your home studio?

I'm half done now. Don Murray is going to come here and mix.

Did you do any of the original tracking dates at your studio?

Here we mainly overdub and mix. It's really just one room. It's not practical to put drums in here. I do a lot of my guitar stuff here because I put an amp in a separate room in the house and mike it up.

When you record your guitar at home, what mic do you use?

I use a Shure 57 or an AKG 451 with a 10 dB pad on it. Don Murray turned me on to that. It sounds great. For vocal things I'll use an AKG 414. When I do my records, I use a Sadowsky nylon string; it's a solid body. I go direct through the Behringers to tape. It's a beautiful sound.

What guitars did you use on the live record ?

I used a Fender Strat and a Gibson ES-346-it's a smaller. version of the 335 guitar. It sort of sounds like a Les Paul and ES-335 combination.

Do you use the same selection of guitars when you play live on stage with Phil Collins?

I use the same guitars, plus a Takamine 6-string acoustic. I use Trace Elliot acoustic amps; they're great.

How about effects? Are your pedals pretty much the same when going from the jazz gig to the rock gig?

I use pretty similar pedal boards. I use a lot of Fulltone pedals, overdrive and chorus pedals. When I play live I use a few more effects than when recording. I use a whammy pedal, which I haven't yet put on record. I also use the Voodoo Lab pedals. Both of these companies' pedals are true bypass pedals, which is important to me.

Do you have a rack of processors for your guitar sound, too?

I'm not into using racks of gear for live. A lot of the rack stuff is really nice, but it's kind of bulky and there's too much going on. I'm a bit from the old school as far as effects go. I like to see it; I like to turn the knob. I don't want to scroll through menus.

What will you be doing next?

I enjoyed doing this reunion with Sweetbottom; we'll be playing again. I have my solo projects. The hardest part is finding time to do all of these things. There will be more touring with the Phil Collins band. We may also do a tour of his jazz project, a big band, in 2005.

The Tracks Live Recording of the Sweetbottom

Engineer Chris Adler has worked with Daryl Stuermer for over fifteen years. Located in Milwaukee, he has his own live sound company, and is the chief engineer at Interstate Music Recording Studio.

Can you run down the mics used for the Sweetbottom tracking date?

Chris Adler: I brought in a lot of my studio mics for that recording. I used an

Electro-Voice N/D868 on the kick, a Shure Beta 57 A on the snare, Beta 98s on all the toms, SM81 s on the hat and ride, and a R0DE NT4 on the cymbals. The bass was recorded with a BSS direct box and a mic on the amp, an E-V N/D868. Daryl's guitar was recorded with an AKG SolidTube. All the key­boards were recorded via direct boxes. For the sax, I used an AKG C419.

Was there a second engineer running the live sound board while you were recording?

I was actually mixing the live show while recording at the same time. I set up two separate consoles.

From what console did you record?

I used a pair of Midas Venice 320s. I own one and got another from a local sound company. I had one for front-of-house and another for the recording.

How did you get the signals to both mixers?

I used a splitter. I mixed the live show separately while sending the best possible levels thru the split into the other Midas.

What recording medium did you use?

I used the Mackie HDR 24/96. I used a pair of those; one was a safety. I was duplicating the tracks in real time. Daryl wanted to keep it to twenty-four tracks because at the time that was all he could mix in his studio. The band played at the club two nights in a row, so I just brought in separate hard drives for each night.

Did you use a word-clock device to keep the two Mackie hard disk recorders running at the exact same sampling rate?

I used an Aardvark Aardsync II master clock for sync.

What other digital gear did you have connected to the Mackie HDR machines?

Just the two Mackie hard disk recorders.

Which guitar amp was Daryl using on stage for the recording?

He used the Mesa Boogie Heartbreaker Head with the Standard Mesa two-twelve cabinet. I put an AKG Solidtube on that. I was really pleased with the sound of that.

Did you use any dynamics processors during the recording process?

I did not print anything to tape. It was all off the Midas Venice 320, with the eq bypassed. I'm sort of a purist; they were completely raw tracks straight from the preamp to the hard drive.

Did you use any external mic preamps for the recording?

No, I used the Midas XL3 pres in the console.

The track list shows that there were two mics used to record ambience. Where were the audience mics located. and how were they positioned?

I used a R0DE NT 4, a fixed stereo microphone. [The NT4 is a single mic body holding two identical capsules in a stereo XY array, reviewed in our January 2003 issue.-Ed.] I hung it on the ceiling right in line with the stage. They were pointed at the audience. Those tracks ran out of phase when they were mixed.

Recording live at a concert can be a chal­lenge at times. Did anything interesting go wrong at the live recording sessions?

We had some weird electricity. There were some blips that Gary Tanin had to get rid of in the mastering, they may have been associated with the house lighting. The venue we recorded in is a cool little place, but by no means a perfect place to record. It's a decent room, but old.

Were they timing ticks relating to clocking of digital gear?

It wasn't digital stuff, more like thumps-60 Hz stuff. It was rather subtle, but it was definitely there. That was the only problem that I couldn't help.

Engineer Gary Tanin is the owner of MultiMusica in Milwaukee. After the Sweetbottom mixes were completed at Daryl's home studio, Gary was charged with the task of mastering the project.

When Daryl brought the final mixes to you, what format were they in?

Gary Tanin: They were 16 bit DATs. Also, at the outset Daryl had given me a copy of the gorgeous live recording of Lee Ritenour's Alive in L.A. (GRP 1997). This was recorded and mixed by longtime Phil Collins/Genesis associate Don Murray. I used this as a model for mastering the Sweetbottom recording.

What tools do you use at your studio, Gary?

My mastering gear includes an Apple G4 running Pro Tools. I have some select outboard compressors and limiters, two DBX 160s, two [UREI] LA-4As, and an Altec Lansing 1591 A.

Which of these did you use on the tracks for Daryl's project?

None of these were used... I strictly stayed in the digital domain. I used vintage opto-emulating compressor plug-ins, a multi-band compressor, then some light limiting (using Waves L 1).

Were all the tunes treated in a similar manner as far as compression and limiting were concerned?

All songs had similar treatment, though each song had tweaks in all the settings of the processors used. The multi-band compressor's upper mid was used to tuck the snare into the mix. I typically roll off the subs gradually below 60 Hz.

Was there one tune that needed more processing than others?

On a few of the songs the hi-hat was a little too aggressive and I tamed that with a bit of de-essing ("The Whisperer" and "Festival City"). Also the vocal tunes, "Beggar's Festival" and "You Know Me Too Well," required a bit more care for [bassist] Duane Stuermer's vocal. I added a bit (1-2 dB) in the 3000 Hz range.

What type of speakers do you use when doing mastering work?

I use a custom set of NS-1 Os with a no longer made JBL Subwoofer system as my primary workhorse monitors. I use my Auratone 5Cs for reference, as well as my Klipsch Heresys and Acoustic Research AR-3Xs.

When the final mastered version of a tune was ready, how did you record the results?

Mastered mixes were recorded to a 24­bit, 44.1 kHz Pro Tools SDII Split Stereo We. I then chose the best-sounding quantizing (POW-r dither with Noise Shaping or Waves dithering). Two master CD-Rs (which are sealed in plastic after a complete audition) are burned, and I make a disc image as a safety. These Files (both the 24-bit and 1 &bit disk images along with Pro Tools sessions and Files) are backed up to a client's hard drive or CD-Rs. This gives the client the ability to re-master at some future date with all post-production edits (musical edits, etc.) intact but prior to the Final mastering.

Ray Legnini (Iegnini@recordingmag.com) is a sound designer and writer. He works from his home near Philadelphia.